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<head><meta charset="utf-8"><title>Announce that 2021 planning is ending? · edition 2021 · Zulip Chat Archive</title></head>
<h2>Stream: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/268952-edition-2021/index.html">edition 2021</a></h2>
<h3>Topic: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/268952-edition-2021/topic/Announce.20that.202021.20planning.20is.20ending.3F.html">Announce that 2021 planning is ending?</a></h3>

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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/268952-edition%202021/topic/Announce%20that%202021%20planning%20is%20ending%3F/near/226115399" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> rylev <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/268952-edition-2021/topic/Announce.20that.202021.20planning.20is.20ending.3F.html#226115399">(Feb 12 2021 at 09:39)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="119224">@CryZe</span> wrote on twitter that they weren't aware of Rust 2021 edition planning. Should we try to make an announcement that 2021 planning is going to end and if people have ideas they should submit them? I want to balance that with our desire to keep this edition low-key and small, but perhaps an internals post would work. Thoughts?</p>



<a name="226127655"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/268952-edition%202021/topic/Announce%20that%202021%20planning%20is%20ending%3F/near/226127655" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Mara <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/268952-edition-2021/topic/Announce.20that.202021.20planning.20is.20ending.3F.html#226127655">(Feb 12 2021 at 11:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think it's a bit late to start collecting new ideas now.</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/268952-edition%202021/topic/Announce%20that%202021%20planning%20is%20ending%3F/near/226130946" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> rylev <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/268952-edition-2021/topic/Announce.20that.202021.20planning.20is.20ending.3F.html#226130946">(Feb 12 2021 at 12:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>I agree with anything big but simple things (e.g., reserving keywords) would still be possible</p>



<a name="226153434"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/268952-edition%202021/topic/Announce%20that%202021%20planning%20is%20ending%3F/near/226153434" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Lokathor <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/268952-edition-2021/topic/Announce.20that.202021.20planning.20is.20ending.3F.html#226153434">(Feb 12 2021 at 15:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>it was largely decided that reserving keywords is only to be done if there's an accepted RFC</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/268952-edition%202021/topic/Announce%20that%202021%20planning%20is%20ending%3F/near/226153560" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Lokathor <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/268952-edition-2021/topic/Announce.20that.202021.20planning.20is.20ending.3F.html#226153560">(Feb 12 2021 at 15:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>and you can use a "raw keyword" in the meantime</p>



<a name="226172448"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/268952-edition%202021/topic/Announce%20that%202021%20planning%20is%20ending%3F/near/226172448" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> scottmcm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/268952-edition-2021/topic/Announce.20that.202021.20planning.20is.20ending.3F.html#226172448">(Feb 12 2021 at 17:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>Specifically, see this comment on the "reserve <code>throw</code>" RFC: <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/2441#issuecomment-395256368">https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/2441#issuecomment-395256368</a></p>



<a name="226178034"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/268952-edition%202021/topic/Announce%20that%202021%20planning%20is%20ending%3F/near/226178034" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> CryZe <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/268952-edition-2021/topic/Announce.20that.202021.20planning.20is.20ending.3F.html#226178034">(Feb 12 2021 at 18:35)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="310399">Mara</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/268952-edition/topic/Announce.20that.202021.20planning.20is.20ending.3F/near/226127655">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I think it's a bit late to start collecting new ideas now.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I'm sorry that I might sound a bit disappointed here, but I'm pretty active in the Rust community and if I didn't by pure chance end up here today, I wouldn't even have known that the edition planning <strong>even started</strong>. This has not been communicated anywhere as far as I know, though I may be wrong. So saying that no new ideas can be accepted anymore honestly makes it sound like only select few people were even supposed to come up with ideas and the majority of the community got excluded in the process. That's really disappointing.</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/268952-edition%202021/topic/Announce%20that%202021%20planning%20is%20ending%3F/near/226178445" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Mara <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/268952-edition-2021/topic/Announce.20that.202021.20planning.20is.20ending.3F.html#226178445">(Feb 12 2021 at 18:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>i've been asking all the relevant teams for their 2021 edition plans and suggestions for a while now. and yeah, it's mostly a collection of the ideas that have been suggested over the past three years. plans with breaking changes that have come up that need an edition change.</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/268952-edition%202021/topic/Announce%20that%202021%20planning%20is%20ending%3F/near/226179368" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Mara <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/268952-edition-2021/topic/Announce.20that.202021.20planning.20is.20ending.3F.html#226179368">(Feb 12 2021 at 18:47)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>like only select few people were even supposed to come up with ideas </p>
</blockquote>
<p>nobody was asked or expected to come up with new ideas. we mostly just try to finish up and formalize ideas that were already out there.</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/268952-edition%202021/topic/Announce%20that%202021%20planning%20is%20ending%3F/near/226179586" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> CryZe <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/268952-edition-2021/topic/Announce.20that.202021.20planning.20is.20ending.3F.html#226179586">(Feb 12 2021 at 18:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>Well that's an unfortunate misunderstanding then, cause I was holding onto the idea for like 2 years or so and was waiting for some Rust 2021 discussion so I can bring it up. Though I discussed it a lot over the course of the 2 years, but it probably never reached anyone here :/</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/268952-edition%202021/topic/Announce%20that%202021%20planning%20is%20ending%3F/near/226179851" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Mara <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/268952-edition-2021/topic/Announce.20that.202021.20planning.20is.20ending.3F.html#226179851">(Feb 12 2021 at 18:51)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="119224">@CryZe</span>  which idea?</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/268952-edition%202021/topic/Announce%20that%202021%20planning%20is%20ending%3F/near/226179959" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> CryZe <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/268952-edition-2021/topic/Announce.20that.202021.20planning.20is.20ending.3F.html#226179959">(Feb 12 2021 at 18:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>It's not even a new idea per se. It's a bug that slipped into Rust 2018 that got accidentally stabilized. I would like to propose to revert that bug.</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/268952-edition%202021/topic/Announce%20that%202021%20planning%20is%20ending%3F/near/226180122" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Steven Fackler <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/268952-edition-2021/topic/Announce.20that.202021.20planning.20is.20ending.3F.html#226180122">(Feb 12 2021 at 18:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>which bug</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/268952-edition%202021/topic/Announce%20that%202021%20planning%20is%20ending%3F/near/226180265" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> CryZe <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/268952-edition-2021/topic/Announce.20that.202021.20planning.20is.20ending.3F.html#226180265">(Feb 12 2021 at 18:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm not super prepared, let me look up all the references and write it up.</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/268952-edition%202021/topic/Announce%20that%202021%20planning%20is%20ending%3F/near/226181627" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Lokathor <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/268952-edition-2021/topic/Announce.20that.202021.20planning.20is.20ending.3F.html#226181627">(Feb 12 2021 at 19:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think that "asking the teams" is exactly the problem. The teams are extremely small. Most seem to be like 10 people or less.</p>
<p>Given that more and more people are coming to Rust every day, we should be better about communicating this stuff with the general public. It can be as simple as asking that This Week In Rust put out a short announcement from time to time.</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/268952-edition%202021/topic/Announce%20that%202021%20planning%20is%20ending%3F/near/226181931" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/268952-edition-2021/topic/Announce.20that.202021.20planning.20is.20ending.3F.html#226181931">(Feb 12 2021 at 19:08)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>Most seem to be like 10 people or less.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>bold of you to assume there are any teams with 10 people</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/268952-edition%202021/topic/Announce%20that%202021%20planning%20is%20ending%3F/near/226181980" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> bstrie <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/268952-edition-2021/topic/Announce.20that.202021.20planning.20is.20ending.3F.html#226181980">(Feb 12 2021 at 19:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>it would be nice for the inside rust blog post to go over some potential ideas for what might make it into the 2021 edition, along with providing a rough timeline of when it will be released. like cryze I too had no idea that edition planning had even begun until last week, let alone that it was about to end</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/268952-edition%202021/topic/Announce%20that%202021%20planning%20is%20ending%3F/near/226187160" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Mara <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/268952-edition-2021/topic/Announce.20that.202021.20planning.20is.20ending.3F.html#226187160">(Feb 12 2021 at 19:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>fwiw the original draft of the milestones in that hackmd i made had </p>
<div class="codehilite"><pre><span></span><code>- [ ] Notify rest of the community (possibly through a post to internals.rust-lang.org)
</code></pre></div>
<p>but after our first edition meetings on january 14 and 15 we made a new schedule with much closer deadlines. (cc <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span>)</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/268952-edition%202021/topic/Announce%20that%202021%20planning%20is%20ending%3F/near/226189170" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Mara <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/268952-edition-2021/topic/Announce.20that.202021.20planning.20is.20ending.3F.html#226189170">(Feb 12 2021 at 20:07)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="224471">Lokathor</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/268952-edition/topic/Announce.20that.202021.20planning.20is.20ending.3F/near/226181627">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I think that "asking the teams" is exactly the problem. </p>
</blockquote>
<p>The problem was that nobody was working actively on the edition. I'm not part of the lang or core team, and wasn't even a rust team member at all when i started pushing for the edition stuff. I just wanted my own 2021 feature in, just like <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="119224">@CryZe</span>. I tried to get things moving by asking all the teams about it etc., but I was not the right person to make any announcements or public statements about it. It was only 14-15 january that we (some core team members and me) started meeting about this, and then there wasn't a lot of time left with the target of 15 february (now moved to 1 march) for finished/accepted rfcs.</p>



<a name="226204222"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/268952-edition%202021/topic/Announce%20that%202021%20planning%20is%20ending%3F/near/226204222" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Lokathor <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/268952-edition-2021/topic/Announce.20that.202021.20planning.20is.20ending.3F.html#226204222">(Feb 12 2021 at 22:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm not attempting to assign blame on you. I'm also a person who is "around the teams but not on a team", so I know how it can feel quite bad to not have the authority to make announcements when no one that should be speaking up is doing so.</p>
<p>This is a recurring sort of issue with Rust project management. I don't think we can solve it with a single Zulip thread, but I think we can acknowledge it. To an extent this is the natural result of everything bring volunteer work, I don't think we'll eliminate the possibility of news falling through the cracks, but even so I think we can do better.</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/268952-edition%202021/topic/Announce%20that%202021%20planning%20is%20ending%3F/near/226401601" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/268952-edition-2021/topic/Announce.20that.202021.20planning.20is.20ending.3F.html#226401601">(Feb 15 2021 at 16:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>We've definitely not been up on the public communication part of things =)</p>



<a name="226401632"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/268952-edition%202021/topic/Announce%20that%202021%20planning%20is%20ending%3F/near/226401632" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/268952-edition-2021/topic/Announce.20that.202021.20planning.20is.20ending.3F.html#226401632">(Feb 15 2021 at 16:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>apologies, <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="119224">@CryZe</span> and others, definitely working on that</p>



<a name="226401744"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/268952-edition%202021/topic/Announce%20that%202021%20planning%20is%20ending%3F/near/226401744" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/268952-edition-2021/topic/Announce.20that.202021.20planning.20is.20ending.3F.html#226401744">(Feb 15 2021 at 16:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>that said, I think for smaller things like <code>mut + default</code>, we can totally roll this. I'm mostly concerned about big initiatives</p>



<a name="226401839"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/268952-edition%202021/topic/Announce%20that%202021%20planning%20is%20ending%3F/near/226401839" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/268952-edition-2021/topic/Announce.20that.202021.20planning.20is.20ending.3F.html#226401839">(Feb 15 2021 at 16:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>also we were setting some deadlines this week for things like an <code>Inside Rust</code> blog post and a renewed 2021 Edition RFC, plan is to do those this week</p>



<a name="226401983"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/268952-edition%202021/topic/Announce%20that%202021%20planning%20is%20ending%3F/near/226401983" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/268952-edition-2021/topic/Announce.20that.202021.20planning.20is.20ending.3F.html#226401983">(Feb 15 2021 at 16:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'd be ok with moving the "March 1st" deadline for finalizing our list back somewhat, but not too far. I'd also be ok with adding small things after that as long as the pieces (migration, etc) are in place, it'd just be that the expectations are higher</p>



<hr><p>Last updated: Aug 07 2021 at 22:04 UTC</p>
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